Thursday, August 02, 2007

Our Solemn Duty To Protect The Unborn

This post is a response to PilgrimsArbour from the comments in this post.

PA - we were on a roll, but I have to stop the roll here and raise no small protest on this issue. I am inferring from your response that you are pro-choice (and of course privately hate the evil of abortion). I know several Catholics of that persuasion as well. In fact, I was both horrified and saddened to learn that my sponsor (studying to become a deacon) was also pro-choice. So here is where I have to draw a sharp line in the sand and be very clear about what I'm going to say - just note that I'm not questioning in the least your sincerity or your fidelity to the gospel of our Lord. It is clear that you love Christ as does this particular Catholic that I mentioned.

As a Catholic, we are not at liberty to be "pro choice". Our duty to protect the unborn is listed under the section of 'thou shall not murder' in our catechism. I wrote two posts to explain this clear teaching of the Church to him. I don't know if he read it - he didn't respond. The first is called "What Catholics Should Know About Abortion" although it is lengthy, it addresses the issues you raised and it applies to all Christians (although aimed at Catholics). For Catholics, this kind of departure from Church teaching is not an option for us. I followed it up briefly with a short post dealing with the baffling myth that the number of women who would die from illegal abortions justifies permitting this modern day holocaust.

What I don't get is, how any Christian can justify being pro choice when it comes to murdering an unborn infant but not pro-choice when it comes to murdering say a toddler or a new born. Let me put this in no uncertain terms - choice has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's either murder or it isn't. Period. Either what is happening with the abortion industry is reaching the point of the all time worst phenomenon that's ever happened, or it simply isn't even bad at all. Apply the reasonings that permit abortion to any other crime and you will see how faulty they are.

If we criminalized crack cocaine think of the black market it would cause...

If we criminalized rape, many rapists might be injured or even killed performing rapes in secret with women trained to defend themselves..

If we criminalized murdering 11 year old kids then think of the power it would give illegal drug lords who would murder the kids for money in secret.

Why is it illegal to kill yourself, but not your child? Is the issue really about "a woman's body"?

Bottom line - All Christians have the solemn duty to protect the innocent and the weak in society. The pinnacle of this truth lies in stopping the abortion holocaust. Pro Choice doesn't work in any other sin and it doesn't work with this one. In the above argument I also dealt briefly with the objection you raised - we don't legislate other sins (like adultery) why this one?

I know that you are personally against abortion (as was my sponsor). But I feel very strongly that your political view points on this issue are highly inconsistent with the moral tragedy of abortion. I hope you will put some very serious thought into this very serious issue.


Dean Soto said...

Very well done.

I, too, had a friend that held the same belief of "I hate abortion, but I don't want to impose my views on others," and all I can say is that it's been very well indoctrinated in the media that moral issues are not necessarily political issues. In other words, the law should not impose morality on others.

I believe this view has trickled down into the minds of many Catholics, who separate their moral obligation to Church teaching from their political views. Abortion, being relatively abstract since they cannot see the injustice done to our little ones, is an abstract concept. As such, it doesn't bear the emotional weight as say, murder. So to many Catholics, it's not a big deal.

Very sad.

Pilgrimsarbour said...

Now that I'm feeling a bit publicly humiliated on your blog, let me clear up a few things. First, I take umbrage at your portrayal of me as pro-choice. I have not now, nor have I ever been, pro-choice. I have been active in protests, seminars, talks and donations to various pro-life causes for over 25 years. I have never been shy about imposing my views on anyone. I understand that this issue consumes you. In a similar way, the threat of Islam consumes me night and day. Since 9/11, to my way of thinking, nothing trumps the threat of Islam, which, as I have said, has no redeeming value whatsoever.

All Christians have the solemn duty to protect the innocent and the weak in society.

Do you really mean only the unborn? Shouldn't it be the Christian's concern to include the young, old and infirm? Well, last time I looked, the young, old and infirm have not been aborted. But they have been murdered with great regularity. Children of our own country on airplanes flying into buildings. Children all throughout the Middle East, in Iraq and Iran, in Israel, in Africa, in Darfur, in the Philippines, all across the globe. How can we ignore this and say that we cannot vote for someone who doesn't have all his ducks in a row regarding our personal standards of what pro-life means? If we let those sub-humans continue to murder our people, are we not worthy of God's condemnation? If our enemies win, then the abortion issue would be moot. Islam doesn't allow it. Is this a preferable way to end abortion? I long for an end to abortion. But we shouldn't have to justify ourselves to each other. Can't we disagree on the methodology of accomplishing this without getting all judgemental about the other guy's commitment to it?

Let me put this in no uncertain terms - choice has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's either murder or it isn't.

Not being pro-choice myself, then I agree with you. Of course, it's murder. But I am looking for practical solutions here. Tell me if you are in favour of life in prison (or execution) for any woman who has an abortion, and any doctor or nurse or other person who participates in one. Is this what we should do? What is the real, honest political and societal answer to this? It's one thing to constantly rail against something. Give me some solutions to this problem.

As I have stated before, I have not yet chosen a candidate for 2008. But if the Republicans put up Rudy, I will vote for him because HE GETS IT when it comes to Muslims in a way no Democrat does. He's quite a flawed individual. He certainly would not get my vote for Pastor. But we're not voting for a church officer, are we? By not voting for the GOP frontrunner because he's not perfectly in agreement with yours or the Church's stance on abortion, you will be insuring that a Dem will get in, and then you will have NO CHANCE of seeing an end to abortion in this land.

Now, obviously, this a very emotional issue for both of us. But don't make the mistake of thinking I'm not on your side. Catholics would do well not to alienate Protestants who feel just as strongly about abortion as they do. We need to work together to solve this problem. Setting up straw-man arguments and then tearing them down is not the way to go about fostering understanding and cooperation on this very critical issue.

TheGodFearinFiddler said...

Pilgrim - I don't have any good excuses for jumping the gun like that it was not my intention to insult you and I shouldn't have assumed you were pro-choice. Sorry, I thought that was what you were alluding to.

My rant was really directed towards pro-choice Christians especially Catholics as Dean noted.

As for Muslims, unfortunately you're absolutely right about the threat of Islam. We're in a war whether we like it or not.

I agree with what you said - it's a colossal mistake to not vote for someone simply because their views don't perfectly align with yours.

But in the 'lesser of two evils' dilemma, you have to draw the line somewhere. I draw the line at abortion. I cannot in good conscience vote for a pro-abortion candidate especially one who claims to be Catholic.

Again, I'm sorry for assuming that you were pro-choice.

Jacob said...

Good is not the enemy of perfect.

The comment to Pilgrimsarbor indicating he is “pro-choice (and of course privately hate the evil of abortion)” is the type of sarcastic personal attack we Catholics pray not to hear from other Catholics. This unfortunate posture tends to diminish our credibility.

Life is a series of priorities. Man cannot preach the word of Jesus if his head is removed and sitting on his chest while his remains lie on a cot in some desolate mud hut. Coincidentally, one cannot work to stop the horrible sin and crime of abortion while hiding in an attic either. First things first…keep the head attached to the body.

As for the Islamists, unless one’s been there, faced them down, listened to their twisted thoughts and had their hands on one’s throat, then it is virtually impossible to comprehend the evil we face. For those who have “been there” and have a different perspective, your narrative might prove fascinating. For those who have not, this experience provides an incomparable reality check.

Why is the left so aligned with the Islamists? Ever hear the term “Allah’s will?”
That’s the term Islamists commonly used to pass the responsibility buck. “Why were you late to the meeting.” “Oh, it was Allah’s will.” “Why did you beat your wife?” “Oh, it was Allah’s will.” “Why did you murder 3,000 innocent people?” “Oh, it was Allah’s will.” Although we could list many more variations on this theme, they all follow the same pattern.

The left reassigns responsibility for abhorrent behavior by claiming to be victims of something or other, while Islamists shift the responsibility to Allah. Victimization is the god of the left and unchecked repugnant behavior is Allah’s will. In either case, the failure to understand and accept personal responsibility is a critical unifying factor of the left and the Islamists. In the end, they both unite against true faith and against anyone who believes and witnesses personal responsibility to God, their country and their family.

Can’t we see? Are we blind? They’ve infiltrated the Catholic Church with homosexuals and pedophiles. They’ve infiltrated the legitimate protestant ministries with greedy phonies and sexual perverts. They sit at the highest levels of government and their primary objective is not to increase the number of abortions. It is to decrease the number of Christians.

It’s a shame that, in this nation of over 300 million people, we must choose our leaders from the group we see daily on CNN and YouTube. So, in this imperfect world, our choice is simple; don’t vote at all or vote for the candidate we believe will do their best to protect our right to continue, as Christ would have us continue. If we can maintain that right, we just might build a platform to address this nation’s infanticide.

TheGodFearinFiddler said...

When I said “pro-choice (and of course privately hate the evil of abortion)" I was neither being sarcastic nor attacking him personally. There was no disrespect intended in my post - merely disagreement. I found later that I jumped the gun and we didnt disagree as much as I thought we did but we still disagree.

This wasn't about the 2008 election, merely about Christians being pro-choice.

Anyway our enemy isn't the liberals, it isn't abortion and it isn't even Islam. Our enemy is Satan plain and simple. Islam, and the leftists are both in league with him. We fight a spiritual battle not an earthly one, and no amount of politics is going to solve it.

JP Manzi said...

Question: (and I admit my ignorance)
Is there a difference between a pro-choice candidate and one who states they are prolife but does nothing what-so-ever to change things on the political front once in office?
It just sounds like a bunch of rhetoric these days. I think if you truely want to vote someone who will attempt this political suicide (as some would say) Constitution Party is the way to go.

TheGodFearinFiddler said...

JP, I think there is a difference between a pro-choice politician and a pro-life one who doesn't do enough to support pro-life causes.

First, anyone who openly endorses the policy of murdering children has serious issues of underlying moral deficiency in the worst way. There's no way to be wrong on this issue and right on every other moral issue. In other words, if they got such an easy moral dilemma so painfully wrong, there will be other issues that they completely miss the mark on as well.

Giuliani is a perfect example of this. Aside from his pro-abortion stance, he is also pro gay marriage and pro stem cell research. I don't know what all else but if you're interested, I'm sure the link at the top of my page is a good place to start. Frankly I've heard enough on him to make my decision already.

But take Bush - one might say he didn't make enough effort for pro life causes (and I would agree to an extant). But look at what he did do versus what would have happened if a democrat (or Giuliani) had been in office; several pro-embryonic stem cell bills would have been passed and we would be very unlikely to have gotten the pro-life judges on the bench that we do now. There are a number of other small pro-life victories won over the last 7 years during the Bush administration that would have easily gone the other way with a pro-abortion candidate.

As for the constitution party- I'm a big ignorant on all that stuff myself. I've heard about them. It's just really discouraging to live in times where we have to make the choice between two evils or throw our vote away because of the two party system.

That being said, all it would take to sway my vote is a pro-life GOP (or hell I'd vote for a pro-life democrat if they were running against a pro-abortion republican... although we all know that wont happen in our life times)

TheGodFearinFiddler said...

I'm a *bit* ignorant not a big ignorant :P (depending on who you ask I guess)

Anonymous said...

Just a thought from a 100% pro-life Catholic:

Note that we tend to blame the woman as if she is the only one involved in the murder. I've been guilty of this too.

A friend of mine raised a good point. We get hung up on the mother because of the emotional reaction we feel when we try to imagine what kind of evil person it would take to murder their own child. Our knee jerk reaction is to make abortion illegal focusing strictly on the mother... that is where the battle is being lost. You see, the pro-choice clan use the mother as well to bolster their argument. It's her choice, she should decide what she wants to do, even if it is killing her innocent baby, we shouldn't judge the woman because we aren't in her shoes, how do we know how we would react if we were in her shoes, etc.

I can understand that point of view, and many other Christians do too. But that is the problem. The one who skates on this is the "doctor". He/she never gets honorable mention in the whole debate. He/she is the actor, the one who destroys the life. Yet, somehow, they get away with not having to be engaged in the debate, even though they are going against their hypocratic oath by performing the gutless murder.

Has it occurred to anyone that the reason why abortion is so widely available as an option to these poor, troubled women (who are oftentimes ignorant) is that our nation's "medical" schools teach our "doctors" how to perform abortions as a medical procedure? There isn't an OB/GYN that has been trained in the last ten years that doesn't have blood on their hands (even if it is just a mock abortion - an imitation murder).

They are paid hit men that are subsidized by the government. Yes, the government is complicit because they have given these doctors a license to kill. Some insurance companies cover abortion.

Does that take away the guilt from the mother who has taken the life of her child? Of course not. But her part in the murder is the same as someone who hires a hit man to knock off his wife. The mother, like the evil husband, are accomplices, conspirators. The one who cut the baby to pieces, the one who had the tools, the one who counselled and convinced the mother to let him do his dirty work, the one who took the money is the doctor.

Focus should be on the doctor. I believe that more people will agree with fighting for laws that prosecute the doctors with lesser penalties against the mothers (accomplice or conspirator). Who knows, I just think it's a pretty good point that we must shift our focus.

Unfortunately, I think that those evangelical wackos that took their attacks on the doctors to the extremes that shifted everyones focus away from them.

TheGodFearinFiddler said...

Anon - I don't think I'm emphasizing the mother too much. In fact, I didn't mention the mother, the doctor or anyone actually. All I've been saying is that it needs to stop.

Why talk about suitable punishments for a crime that isn't even a crime yet? Let's make it a crime in our legal system (it's already a crime against nature) and then we can talk about the punishment.