Friday, April 11, 2008

The Church Fathers - Anti Semites?

Strange that I can't remember the last time anyone pointed out the fact that it was always the "Christian" heresies (rejected by the Church) which proved to be those truly anti-Semitic. Take the following passage from Hippolytus:

(Saturnilus,) however, (maintained that Jesus) was manifested as man in appearance only. And he says that the God of the Jews is one of the angels, and, on account of the Father's wishing to deprive of sovereignty all the Archons, that Christ came for the overthrow of the God of the Jews,
This is to mention nothing of the utter and decisive rejection of Marcionism and all it represented a little later (after Saturnilus that is). Of course, these are the same scholars (I mean those who claim Christianity is anti-Semitic) who'd have us believe the fathers were utterly misogynistic. It should go without saying (but it never does) that I'm not denying the fact that there have been anti-Semitic atrocities committed by Christians (or vice versa)


Anonymous said...

The Fathers could be both anti Semite and anti woman. And they could be great on many topics. If you want them to only be great, you are arguing for Disney Catholicism. Heck...a Council was anti semetic:

4th lateran 1215

.... "Jews and Saracens of both sexes in every Christian province must be distinguished from the Christian by a difference of dress. On Passion Sunday and the last three days of Holy Week they may not appear in public."

Here is Augustine saying that women are less companions than other men and then 800 years later, Aquinas will repeat it since he ascribed way too much authority to everything Augustine said:

“ I don’t see what sort of help woman was created to provide man with, if one excludes the purpose of procreation. If woman is not given to man for help in bearing children, for what help could she be? To till the earth together? If help were needed for that, man would have been a better help for man. The same goes for comfort in solitude. How much pleasure is it for life and conversation when two friends live together than when a man and woman cohabitate.” De Genesi ad litteram 9,5-9 Augustine.

Aquinas, ST, Pt. I. Q.98, art.2 "Moreover, we are told that woman was made to be a help to man. But she was not fitted to be a help to man except in generation, because another man would have proved a more effective help in anything else. (On the contrary..section)."

On anti semitism, google Chrysostom
Jews anti-semitism...he did a series of sermons that were awful and Augustine too sometimes called the Jews "carnal" simply qua Jews. Any long reader of Augustine has come across it.

Tim A. Troutman said...

Those are neat quotes but I thought you were going to bring up something about anti-Semitism or misogyny??? I'm confused.

Oh wait.. I get it. Because they didn't think and act 100% politically correct by 21st century standards they're anti-Semitic misogynists. Well you're a long way from convincing me but perhaps some of my readers have been convinced by your arguments. You never know..

Anonymous said...
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Tim A. Troutman said...

Anon - I'm not a big fan of "LOL" during blog conversations. It's highly condescending. You can "LOL" somewhere else and as for the "Disney soldiers" comment it wasn't appreciated either.

In fact, if you want me to dialogue with you on this, first address my original point which you completely ignored in order to hold to your post-modern fundamentalism.